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Published Sep 29, 21
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I desire to provide you all a break for a moment and also turn to Mr. Swartz. Normally, we would certainly have had two panels, but we really did not know just how the Senate would certainly be running today, so in an effort to make certain we obtained via all the treaties today, we did this as one panel.

Swartz, you aim out in your testimony as well as your statements that the treaty with Bermuda also pierces financial institution secrecy as well as offers a device for us getting the info we need. There have been some shared legal assistance treaties that contain stipulations related directly to sharing bank records or various other monetary details.

Swartz. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. With regard to that specific concern, the committee might be describing the reasonably new stipulation that shows up, for example, in our E.U.-U.S. Mutual Legal Aid Treaty, the identification of bank documents provision. That was an arrangement that was composed and also adopted in the context of the E.U.

Under that arrangement, it's feasible for the requesting event to inquire regarding whether an account exists in the requested nation, or in the situation of the E.U., among the asked for participant states. However, afterwards, the request, if there is an identification of an account, should be adhered to up via a typical shared lawful help treaty.

As well as with respect to Bermuda, our record of participation has been excellent. We believe that the record we carry the production of records, consisting of financial institution records, is such that we are positive that the stipulations consisted of in this shared lawful help treaty, which do need participation on the manufacturing of documents, will certainly be enough to guarantee that we get the records we need for our monetary investigations and other examinations.

Some various other MLATs likewise permit immediate, non-written type requests to be made. It's my understanding that in Bermuda, it needs to remain in written kind. Any factor why that arrangement was not included in this agreement? Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, while it is real that the Common Legal Help Treaty does need demands in written kind, it was the judgment of the arbitrators that it was sufficient that, in this instance, with regard to Bermuda, we would certainly be able to obtain expeditious feedbacks to our requests as well as likewise provide such actions to Bermuda's demands, especially because we have a technique currently developed that will proceed, our company believe, under the treaty of having the ability to convey those requests via e-mail or through fax.

Legislator Cardin. So was this, basically, a choice made by UNITED STATE mediators, that it was not needed, understanding just how we can promptly get faxes and also e-mails sent out? Is that fair sufficient to claim, or otherwise? Mr. Johnson. Legislator, if I can assist on that particular one? Senator Cardin. Certain. Mr. Johnson.

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Bermuda resisted that due to the fact that they wished to ensure that the demands were clear and in a much more official means. In the negotiations, it additionally ended up being clear that they accepted that such demand can be made by fax or by email. So the actual issue they were worried concerning was not finding a fast ways to make a demand, however actually just taking oral demands off the table.

So we're positive that we have actually got the methods in position that we can make immediate requests of them in such a way that will certainly be reliable. Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, if I may add, actually, while it is an advantage to be able to make oral demands, in practice, it's extremely rare that we do so.

Senator Cardin. My major worry is simply, in immediate issues, that it's not postponed. As well as with modern-day communication, it appears to me that can probably be taken care of. I'm a lot more worried concerning financial institution documents. Mr. Johnson, do have any comments on the bank documents issue? Mr. Johnson. Once more, not specifically on the bank problem.

The difference between being able to do a dental request or having the ability to make use of one of these other extremely fast ways, we assume, is not substantial. Legislator Cardin. There've been some issues increased concerning the adequacy of Bermuda law with respect to forfeits of earnings as well as agencies of criminal offenses.

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Mr. Chairman, we are. The Common Legal Assistance Treaty in Post 17 does obligate Bermuda to give assistance to the United States in procedures associating to forfeiture of profits and agencies of crime, to the level permitted by the legislation of Bermuda.

We have actually had 2 instances of effective requests for restraint as well as loss of assets. Both instances were a success and also we had the ability to acquire the funds. As a general matter, assistance is available under the legislations of Bermuda, and also I do assume that's vital to anxiety, when it come to freezing, seizing, as well as restraining properties, including for matters associating with terrorism as well as terrorism funding.

It needs to be kept in mind that loss aid is not restricted to what is allowed under Bermuda's domestic regulation. When it come to an U.S. order, Bermuda can not surrender a certain instrumentality of nondrug offenses, since that power does not exist locally. Once again, that's restricted to agencies in nondrug crime situations.

Senator Cardin. In the Bermuda arrangement, there's a provision that is not unfamiliar to us, where Bermuda can reject teamwork in resources situations.

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Are we prevented as an outcome of that or is there a method in which we are able to coordinate under this treaty, also in those situations? Mr. Chairman, we think and we wish we still would be able to work together.

In reality, we have that experience with other nations that have placed similar interpretations on the mutual legal assistance obligations, and we have actually been able to exercise arrangements in a variety of situations that allow us to obtain evidence or go over whether the proof is considerable sufficient to go forward with some type of additional steps being taken.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, Senator, if I might just include in that, one of the factors this treaty took as lengthy it did to negotiate and also conclude is due to the fact that it was necessary to us to see to it that there wasn't an express restriction on assistance in funding cases in the treaty itself.

Swartz related to you. As well as that means we believe that aids keep the concept that is very important to us, that such teamwork ought to be offered, irrespective of the kind of situation. And also we assume this has additionally birthed out with a few other countries, where also with similar worries regarding cooperation in funding situations, they have, for instance, been able to give support to the nonpenalty phase of a test or an additional celebration examination.

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They do hold the right under this treaty to refute cooperation where the United States criminal justice system is looking for funding punishment? Senator, they hold the right under the treaty to not supply help in situations that are in contrast to public plan or their necessary rate of interests, as well as they have actually informed us that they interpret that to allow them, in death fine cases, to work out that.

I simply wanted to make it clear that they would certainly not be an offense of the treaty. We understand their analysis, that if there was a case pending right here that we needed their assistance, where, clearly, the prosecutors were seeking the fatality fine, Bermuda might choose not to work together under this treaty.

If I might state, Mr. Chairman, notably, the treaty would certainly require, because this would be a denial under Write-up 3 of the treaty, that first there had to be consultations with the United States, prior to that rejection can go onward. As well as I believe that's an essential facet of the negotiation that Mr.

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Rather than having an explicit provisionSpecific stipulation is one of a set of conditions under problems assistance may aid denied after rejected, appointment, as well as other thingsVarious other that there must be need to as to whether assistance can support given, offered to such conditions as the requested country asked for necessary.

And also I believe that would certainly be helpful for us to have that details in this committee. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the easiest job below, considering that this agreement was formerly approved by this committee. As I claimed in my opening, we approved it also late in the 111th Congress for activity.

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Have there been any kind of substantial adjustments in our financial investment connection with Rwanda since last November when you offered testament on this treaty? What we have seen given that last November is a boost in United States investment in Rwanda, and I can offer you a couple of instances.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a major hotel in Kigali. And also, additionally, Marriott Hotels is entering to help with the country's expanding friendliness industry. So I would state that, provided this pattern of raised investment, that it is essential that the protections be managed for them.

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You likewise discussed the reality that the United States is exploring other bilateral investment treaties in Africa. I assume we have 5 present reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. Can you just share with us various other countries that the United States has revealed passion in negotiating treaties?



I believe that finishes the questioning. I do appreciate your perseverance with the committee as well as thank you very much for your testimony today.

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Answer. As established out listed below, we would love to supply updated details on reported U.S. investment activity in Rwanda. Apart from these updates, the solutions offered by the Department's witness in the 111th Congress stay precise. In 2009, the supply of UNITED STATE foreign straight financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

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And I assume that would certainly be practical for us to have that information in this committee. Mr. Swartz. Thank you. We 'd be pleased to provide that. Legislator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the simplest job here, considering that this agreement was formerly accepted by this committee. As I claimed in my opening, we approved it far too late in the 111th Congress for action.

Have there been any considerable adjustments in our financial investment relationship with Rwanda because last November when you offered testimony on this treaty? What we have seen since last November is a rise in United States financial investment in Rwanda, as well as I can provide you a few instances.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a major hotel in Kigali. As well as, also, Marriott Hotels is entering to help with the nation's growing hospitality sector. So I would certainly state that, provided this pattern of boosted investment, that it is vital that the protections be afforded for them.

financiers. Legislator Cardin (foreign tax credit). I thank you for that. You additionally mentioned the fact that the United States is checking out other bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. I believe you stated one various other nation. I believe we have five present bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. Can you just share with us various other countries that the United States has shown interest in bargaining treaties? Ms.

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Senator Cardin. Thank you. I have actually been informed by the staff that I should ask the question of whether the management still sustains the Senate approval of the Rwanda treaty, since it was held over from the last Congress. For the record? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We absolutely do. Senator Cardin.

I think that finishes the questioning. I do appreciate your patience with the committee and thank you really a lot for your statement today.

Solution. As established out listed below, we would such as to offer upgraded info on reported UNITED STATE investment task in Rwanda. Aside from these updates, the solutions provided by the Division's witness in the 111th Congress continue to be accurate. In 2009, the stock of U.S. foreign direct financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Evaluation).

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